di  Natalia HOLOWNIA

Natalia Anna Hołownia: Firstly, a question to you as the chairman of the International Competition Jury: what’s your opinion about the quality of this year’s pretenders for the Warsaw Grand Prix? Do you believe they share a common element, a certain leitmotif?

Jan A.P. Kaczmarek: There’s a certain tendency, not completely positive I would say, which is the over-production of issues, ideas. There is a group of films that have too many elements: it’s the same as in cooking- if there are too many ingredients, the meal just isn’t tasty.

And I think it’s the same in music, isn’t it?

Of course. Let’s say there are too many issues within one movie, a multiplication of themes. I believe this would be the only pattern. Now, there are plenty of completely distinct productions since we have classic dramas or even some animation. For example, today we saw a Japanese movie that is half animation, half fiction and to some extend it uses child language although it doesn’t really have much to do with children’s world. So I think it’s an interesting mix.

And is there already a front runner?

Even if there was one, I couldn’t reveal it to you. Of course I know that it makes me less attractive for the interviewers because there are still many things that have to remain secret. But you’re going to know everything on Saturday and tomorrow night is our deadline to announce the decision.

I would like to know what you think about the Polish representation at this year’s festival.

Well, I’ve only seen one, The Dark House, so I can’t have a complete opinion. I’m also going to see the other one, Piggies, and I think this would be all concerning Polish movies.

But there’s also ReverSE, right?

But it’s not in the International Competition, it’s in the 1-2 Competition, unless I’m wrong…

No, no, I think you’re right.

However there’s one more movie that we could call a Polish one as its director, this woman, she is Polish and its title is…I’m sorry, I’ve lost it

Ok, no problem. I’ve asked you about Reverse since it’s the Polish candidate for the Academy Award.

Which I’m deeply interested in as I’m a member of the Academy’s jury and I was closely involved in choosing the final five. Because for the last three years there’s been a new institution and there are about 25 members of the Academy who gather together as a kind of jury who qualifies the movies from nine to five and last year I was part of it and maybe I’m participating this year as well. I’m truly interested in this system and I really hoped to watch Reverse during the festival but now I know it’s simply impossible. But of course I’m gonna be twice that attentive when it comes to Los Angeles.

I was truly interested in your opinion about Lankosz’s movie as I often wonder if Polish films stand a chance in competing for the Oscar as they are so deeply rooted in Polish reality, which, I believe, foreigners can’t possibly understand.

You know, I think it’s is the same case as with food and wine: if something is deeply rooted in its background but at the same time it’s remarkable, it’s surely going to be appreciated. It’s like if we have an outstanding Italian wine, it’s gonna be highly valued not only in Italy but also anywhere else.

Yes, I think you’re right.

And it’s the same story with French wine or any brilliant meal and, of course, with movies. The problem occurs only when a movie fakes something, but when it’s sincerely and deeply rooted and well-made then it always has a chance. Please, try to remember that most of the movies that won or were nominated for the Oscar in the category of best foreign movie had much of its local color, for example Almodóvar’s movies or, above all, the German production Lives of others. Of course such problems have a wider resonance since if there’s a good subject which describes the events of one country, then, against all appearances, it concerns many of us. So, I think localization is not a drawback. What is drawback, instead, is when a movie is sloppy or made in an unprofessional way.

Of course, quality always wins. But I was thinking about it all while watching The Dark House, a movie that talks in particular about this very period of Polish history that maybe foreigners aren’t as familiar with or as experienced by as we are. So, I was wondering if such a movie can get to the international audience.

Well, it’s not one of the candidates so there’s no point in analyzing it.

Ok, so let’s leave it that way. Now, there’s been a festival scandal. I know you have already commented on the news that the screening of Welcome to Life! by Henryk Dederko was cancelled, but could you please express once again your feelings towards this incident exclusively for Kinematrix ?

Yes, of course. You see, this is something that hasn’t been defined precisely since it’s been said that there were some legal issues. However, I talked to the producer and it turns out the television is, in fact, in position to allow the screening. For me, when there’s a clash of values, and in this case on one side we have social conscience and on the other the protection of corporate rights, it’s always the social value that should prevail. So, I believe the law must protect the freedom of critique and under no circumstances allow preventive censorship.

I do agree.

It’s like if a work of art, a movie or a press article insults somebody’s business beyond law, then, of course, they have all the rights to defend their business. But the preventive censorship, I mean when we block something from the public because we think it might harm us somehow and if such a practice is accepted, then I would say we live in a very sad reality where we can do nothing but compliment one another. Anyway, it was a rather unpleasant surprise for me and especially as it regards the matter that has been in common consciousness for 12 years and this is also for how long the war is on. But what was truly delightful about this incident was that this movie is available on the Internet and thanks to the fuss Amway has provoked, the gate to this production’s been opened. So, the next day I opened youtube and I watched three episodes. I had to stop there since I work at the festival but I’m going to finish it for sure. You see, this is really amazing because in this very case freedom is having another means to get access to what we need. In such moments Internet turns out to be a very free and democratic space.

Yes, it does. Now, I’ve also wanted to ask you about the movie that is in theatres right now, The courageous heart of Irena Sendler. Do you think this movie has any chance of, well, maybe not exactly repeat, but at least achieve similar success as The Schindler’s List did?

No, it doesn’t.

Why is that so?

It doesn’t as its life is limited to Polish area only since this is a very particular deal that has been made. Hallmark made this movie for CBS Television and it was only emitted in the USA, besides with a huge success, and then Hallmark agreed to give license for feature film version but under the condition of being distributed in Poland only with, I guess, a possibility of showing it during some festivals.

So according to what you’ve said it unfortunately has very limited means to reach the viewer.

Yes, but there’s one more thing we must keep in our minds. The Schindler’s list was a very expensive production. The courageous heart of Irena Sendler is quite a modest movie, so that’s also why it can’t compete with regard to impetus with the other one. But at the same time it’s a very important movie, especially for us, the Polish, but not only for us as it tells a story of one woman who, not being afraid of death, managed to help so many Jewish children. Personally, I find it important as I do suffer when I hear that people in Poland would act very badly and didn’t help the Jews during the war. It’s dishonest firstly since it’s not true as those who wanted to and could help, they helped and please remember that no society is a society of heroes only. There are only few people courageous enough to risk their own lives, especially for those who they don’t even know. So we have to respect each act of such a heroism, not to mention that many of those who tried to save the Jews paid the highest price as they or they families were killed. Also, it’s important to remember that in other countries there wasn’t capital punishment for helping the Jews and even so people were too afraid of possible consequences. I think it’s very sad and totally incomparable and that’s why we, the Polish, should hold our heads high. Of course, you can always do even more, you’d always want to do more, but I think that judging us today for that period is just inappropriate.

What you’ve said is deeply important indeed and I think it ranks this movie even higher.

Plus its power of inspiration is amazing, not only on the level of saving these particular lives, but, generally speaking, every rightful human action that means risking your own life is very inspiring. Today we need courage as well, for example in the case of Amway it was courage what was needed, though this time the price is not that high but still there is a price. There’s always a price to what you do, if you protest against the government or object against the corporation you work for and then you risk your job, so every movie that shows this kind of courage is inspiring. Also everywhere, and especially in Poland, there’s lack of ideals, of idealism.

Yes, for example me, life-long idealist who has always counted on youth and its power, and I must say I understand what you mean as I can see how little of this attitude there’s left, how few idealists we still have, especially among young people. Unfortunately, my peers have buried the remains of idealism and chosen money which has completely deprived them of this faith, I think.

But, you know, it’s not really their fault because everything has changed and now you live in a totally different society that is bombed with visions of success and wealth and suddenly it turns out that values have changed, that if you don’t have some gadgets, if you don’t spend your holidays abroad, in Hula Kula islands or something, then you think you’re worth much less then those who do.

You’re so right.

And it’s kind of a caricature of capitalism as this is a young capitalism that’s just learning. The older democracies, like Germany or France, they don’t feel such a panic that we do in Poland: that you have to promote, fight for success and, which is partially understood, you have to fight to survive since the social mechanisms, the security mechanism are much weaker than in Germany or France, so people really are in panic and they run after money not only because of greed, but also because of fear.

Exactly. And I think France is a very good example. I lived there for one year and this gap between our society, especially our young people, and the French society is just huge. But, of course, it’s not for no reason that it’s like that in Poland.

But of course and we have such a long distance to make up for and it’s wonderful that we are trying to do so, that the society matures. I also believe that the coming back of young people who lived abroad for a while will be of huge importance for our country since this is a completely new society who’s bringing a, let’s say, “reformed software”.

That’s true, but let’s leave this matter for now. I’d like to ask you about your cooperation with one of the best Polish or even world directors, Agnieszka Holland. Because music is a highly important element of movie, I believe that if a director and a composer join forces over and over again there just has to be a kind of special connection, a click between them, right?

Of course

And, as far as I know, you worked with Holland during making of Total Eclipse of the Sun, The Third Miracle, there was also a TV production…

And also Washington Square. We’ve made five movies together so far. I think it’s a lot.

It’s really a lot and it means there is this special understanding between you, isn’t it?

Absolutely. We have the same roots and we share the same culture, I mean there are same novels, and same simple cultural codes and, frankly speaking, it’s all really helpful as it’s almost impossible between director and composer to communicate things to each other completely and clearly. And if they both originate from the same culture then it’s simply much easier. Then we can instinctively find some solutions that are acceptable for both sides.

And could you please tell me which of your compositions is the most personal, intimate or, in other words, the most important for you?

I think Finding Neverland is the most exceptional and the most important for me because so as to prepare it I had to break my own barrier, the one I truly wanted to break, though. Namely, I used to feel very comfortable in drama and in the world of darkness, which is typical of Europe in general and above all of Eastern Europe. Polish composers feel very secure creating serious, difficult and heavy compositions. Within the classic or so-called contemporary music there are such compositions… For example Penderecki has made his career by writing music about Oświęcim, about suffering, our historical and national tragedy and so on. It truly remains very strong in us, and, suddenly, what comes up is a project that, at least at the beginning, brings something completely different because you have to get into the children’ world, into this special simplicity with no claim, into the light, which was neither easy nor obvious. I think that if I hadn’t been living in California for so long, it would have never happened as I would have never found enough courage to write this music which is partially so simple.
It was also a special lesson for me as a human being, to open myself to something which is not part of my emotional education and what became part of my life. Every now and then I say these funny words that the amount of sunshine we have in California has influenced my work, has enlightened it considerably and that Finding Neverland and the great success that came along was possible only because I found some balance between this seriousness and drama I’m carrying in my heart and this joy or lightness of being.

But I think it’s really wonderful that you say you owe California for giving you the courage to make this beautiful music and that then California appreciated your work and gave you this great award, Oscar for the best music line. Once again congratulations on your success.

Thank you very much

And the Oscar, has it changed much in your life? Because even before being awarded with Oscar you worked with remarkable directors and with great movies.

Well, it hasn’t changed much on the scale of my identity or spirituality as when I received it I had already been a completely shaped man and I think it would be rather bizarre if suddenly this reward had made a revolution in my heart, right? But it has changed indeed much within my public reality, I mean there appeared many interesting possibilities beside music. I’ve been invited to participate in various debates where I find a vent for my other intellectual passions. I’m a lawyer and although I have never worked in my professional field I have a general interest in life and politics, especially in issues of social importance, and I want to participates in such talks. And, paradoxically, the award for music has opened for me the way to this public activity and has widen my public life.

And is there any director you still haven’t worked with and you would especially like to?

This is the exact question I have already been asked today. I answered I don’t think like that any longer as I try to not locate my personal dreams in others. It’s more the kind of movie or music I’m interested in since I feel hunger of doing things I’ve never done before, of adventure, an artistic adventure as well, but I don’t situate this hunger in specific people. I think it’s unhealthy and bad if, for example, I insisted on making a movie with the deceased Bergman, I use the name of a dead director on purpose. So, let’s suppose Bergman is alive and I’m dying to make a movie with him. But it’s just bad, isn’t it? It easily turns into obsession and only provokes frustration. I think you have to believe, and I do believe, everything that happens to us is inevitable and if it’s my destiny to work with one director then it’s going to happen, and if not then it won’t. We must only give a chance to such a meeting and that’s what I do by having my agent who represents my work, and there’s also my music around the world and so are my records and I get e-mails from Teheran, Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo, etc. I believe this is this chance that I have, that I have been given and also I’ve been co-creating, the chance of communicating. And as I’m already in this chain of communication and if a meeting with one or another filmmaker is to happen, then it’s gonna happen.

How do you chose the projects you make music for? Are you enchanted by screenplay or do you just read it and then see the music, if it’s possible to see music, of course.

It is. It’s easier to hear it though, but you can also see it sometimes. You know, there’s no rule to it. Sometimes I get inspired by screenplay but the safest way is to fall in love with a movie when it’s already completed. As you know there’s still a long way between screenplay and movie. Sometimes I read a screenplay which seems inspiring and then it turns out it’s not what I had expected. So when I have a chance to watch a movie then I can see and understand much more and even if it’s not the final cut it’s still a kind of a total that already has its quality or potential…Or not really, as it would be too good to be true.
It’s that every time I watch an incomplete version, it’s often not perfect, there can still be mistakes, it can still result bad or not very good, but I think this is the risk, right? It’s also a pleasure of working with such project ‘cause you never really know what the final effect’s gonna be. It’s the same thing with recording my music. There’s often this illusion that it’s been all already written and that we know exactly what it is and so the orchestra is definitely going to play it right. But it’s not true. There are still so many deformations and mistakes in this process that it is always a miracle and you always have to celebrate when at the end of the whole process you hold in your hands a movie or CD with the music that’s simply perfect. It’s always a lottery, though.
Of course we try to minimize the risk by good plan of working, by training our intuition, by making right all the decisions with whom, when and where to record. So, yes, the margin of error is shrinking, but circumstances, it’s really fascinating, may always be out of control and there can always be a disaster even if we were heading for success.

Have you ever been disappointed with the final effect of the whole project? I’m not asking for a specific title, just in general.

If you’re not asking then it’s good, but of course such things happen. It’s inevitable, especially if you have lived for a longer while and have worked for many projects. One day it’s always going to happen.

Lately I’ve seen The Visitor, an amazing, beautiful movie, and so is the music, and some weeks ago I watched The Evening, which was released right on DVD in Poland.

Actually, it was in theatres as well, for a couple of days.

Was it?

Yes, I’ve been told so. There’s also a CD but it’s rather strange, I must confess. For the first time ever I had no control over CD and there was such an idea of mixing my compositions with traditional jazz. You don’t do it like that, it’s always the matter of either-or. But some of the people in charge of the record labels wanted to show their creativity. Now, if they had put on the CD the jazz songs that actually are in the movie, then it wouldn’t be so bad, but, in fact, there are many songs that have nothing to do with the film or with my music. So, it was a mistake.

I believe they’ve been a bit over-creative, haven’t they?

Exactly. Also I was enchanted by the movie Aimée and Jaguar you made the music line for. To me, it’s definitely a visual and musical movie, since I believe these are the most important elements of it, elements that correspond perfectly with one another. I had read the book before and the movie turned out to be a wonderful illustration of this story.
 

Well, thank you for such an interesting conversation. Please, provide us constantly with more compositions and good luck on your future projects that we’re looking forward to.

Thank you very much.

Warszawa, Multikino Złote Tarasy, 15.10.2009